XML-DEVIL Proposal - was Open Standards Processes

Frank Boumphrey bckman at ix.netcom.com
Sat Apr 25 02:53:37 BST 1998

    Unless the Membership elegibility has changed not-for-profit
organisations are allowed to apply for membership.

    Although the rights and privilages of membership are limited to paid
employees, according to the Affiliate member agreement and Appendix1, there
is nothing to prevent a paid employee being a spokesman of the group.
Certainly no members of the group should air their confidential knowledge on
a public forum, but there are several W3 members who contribute regularly to
the W3 forums, Jon Bosak, Dave Ragget, Chris Wilson to name a few.

    It is clear that members or sponsors of a consortium cannot attend
meetings etc. but they can send paid employees to meetings on their behalf.

    The idea behind a process such as XML-Devil is not to take over the
organization, but to have input into the W3 decision making process.

>> set up and maintain a mailing list just like xml-dev
(only restricted), and monitor the activities of each and every one of
the "employees" to make sure that they followed W3C confidentiality

    Many of us do this already and have ample time for other activities!! We
are not talking about a 10,000 member organization here!!


-----Original Message-----
From: Don Park <donpark at quake.net>
To: xml-dev at ic.ac.uk <xml-dev at ic.ac.uk>
Date: Friday, April 24, 1998 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: XML-DEVIL Proposal - was Open Standards Processes

>>Cute idea, but it won't accomplish what you want.  You would have to
>>incorporate and set up legal employment contracts with all your
>>"employees", and then all the employees of the corporation would be
>>legally bound to respect the confidentiality of the W3C work in
>>progress just like the employees of the current W3C members are.  So
>>there goes your free and open public discussion.  And you could say
>>goodbye to the right to speculate in newsgroups or public lists like
>If I understand the requirements correctly, all types of organizations are
>allowed to be a member of W3C.  It includes commercial, educational,
>government agencies.  Nothing indicates that it excludes industry
>association.  Having to become an employee of XML-Devil Inc. seems like a
>subversion and I do not feel right doing that.  I would like to be able to
>do this without having to sell myself out.
>I was not planning to have open public discussions, XML-Devils will have
>own closed mailing list where we will discuss the issues and submit
>and proposals to W3C.  Anyone breaking the confidentiality agreement will
>lose the membership.  One of us will be elected to represent us in the W3C
>Advisory Committee.
>What we, the independent XML developers, offer could be what W3C needs to
>remain truely vendor-neutral.  Netscape, JavaSoft, and others can probably
>balance Microsoft within W3C but there is currently nothing except good
>judgement to balance the needs of large corporations and small developers.
>I do not like being dependent on other people's judgement.  I do not want
>be a bystander while big boys play politics on the supposedly level ground.
>What we are trying to do will not have negative impact on W3C activities.
>We are all professional developers and we will strive to be an integral
>of W3C.  It would be best if W3C offered special membership to a
>self-governing group of independent developers.
>Meanwhile, I will take a look at what OASIS offers as you suggested.  Thank
>you for taking the time to respond in length.
>Don Park
>PS: I would like to change the proposed name to XML-DEV Independent Lobby
>rather than LogHead which is similar in concept but less professional :-).
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