bryan.cooper at veritas.com
Thu May 13 21:07:16 BST 1999
Rick - I didnt see where to pickup your draft. Since this group is NOT
XML-standards-body-only-need-apply, I thought I'd make a 2 cent point.
SOMEWHERE in xmlland there is an effort to use XML tags syntax instead of DTD,
and I just have to workaround with my own for now. Maybe that is getting
In any case, what I feel is that its EASIER for me to setup an XML validation
thang than what I see
as a separate syntax in the DTD world. PLUS it gets awfully difficult from
an application approach to get really detailed rules e.g. arbitrary extensions
for those cases where "if its tuesday and you are in belgium, you can speak
three languages unless
you are in a lambic beer brewery". To me, XML (or maybe xml) is helpful
readable e.g. intuitive - DTD's aint' folks and never will be..
So rather than worry about it, I create an application level XML tag and then
place entries for each attribute for
my own application. I am not trying to pursue STANDARDS. I am interested in
the parser folks can improve their interaction with my applications. A while
ago I brought up
EVENT handling which I feel is essential to getting more power from the parser
met a big THUNK with the people on this group at that time.
So, for my apps, after the XML parser has validated the entries via DTD, I can
use a more granular
application level XML approach.
For example, to validate the XML <Command> entry <CO> and its several
attributes, I have this
'validate' method hanging around for my application. At some point I could go
back and build the DTD from this
information and let the parser do the error checking, but this was faster for
me to build into my application
for right now than trying to grok the DTD stuff. And I don't see how the
parser is going to
handle the issues right now that more errors/rules brings to the table.
<COMMAND TYPE="CO" NAME="entities" METHOD="validate">
<CO TYPE="DEFAULT" VALIDATE="*" CO="*"/>
<CO TYPE="NAME" VALIDATE="*" CO="*"/>
<CO TYPE="LOG" VALIDATE="*" CO="*"/>
<CO TYPE="PURPOSE" VALIDATE="*" CO="*"/>
<CO TYPE="CALC" VALIDATE="*" CO="var_calc"/>
<CO TYPE="PROGRAM" VALIDATE="*" CO="program|cond_program|subcommand|var_list"/>
<CO TYPE="METHOD" VALIDATE="subcommand|cli|map"
<CO TYPE="WHEN" VALIDATE="pre|post|during|notify|hold" CO="*"/>
<CO TYPE="CLEANUP" VALIDATE="ok|no" CO="*"/>
<CO TYPE="NOTIFY" VALIDATE="ok|no" CO="*"/>
<CO TYPE="PREFACE" VALIDATE="*" CO="cli"/>
<CO TYPE="VAR" VALIDATE="*" CO="cond_program|cond_subcommand|subcommand"/>
<CO TYPE="VAR_NAME" VALIDATE="*" CO="cond_program|cond_subcommand"/>
<CO TYPE="MODE" VALIDATE="for_each_sub|optional|required|default"
I am using Python and the code to validate this was very short and easy to
implement. Maybe 50 lines.
I would see more benefit in using the parser if there was clearer interactions
between the parser and the real world
application. Most parsers take a document centric approach while I am working
more data driven where I use
bits of XML all through the processing of the application. So I want to be
able to control just
when this level of validation is done for example. BTW, can you find the
XML on this page based on this syntax?
I suspect other folks are doing something similar here to get things going:
this approach is more readable as well as more flexible than the DTD. Can
point me to the status of using XML for this kind of validation is done?
Again, if the PARSER's said they could do something more with the DTD than just
complain when an error occurred, it would be more helpful to me. I know
that the nascent XML editors need the DTDs so in the long term I'll have
to go back and support that.
F. Bryan Cooper 707 823 7324
707 313 0355 fax
VERITAS Software 707 321 3301 mobile
Bryan.Cooper at veritas.com
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