Undeclared namespace

Thomas B. Passin tpassin at idsonline.com
Mon Nov 1 02:54:21 GMT 1999

From: Mark Birbeck <Mark.Birbeck at iedigital.net>

> Thomas B. Passin wrote:
> > My version of IE5 does not need to have the namespace
> > declared as a #FIXED attribute
> Please send me a copy of it, or tell me where you downloaded it from.
> Just joking, but I disagree, Thomas. This was discussed a while back in
> relation to XHTML, when I seriously fell out of love with Microsoft.

Probably before I joined the list.

Just to be complete even though you said you were joking, I just rechecked
using my copy of IE5.  The XML with DTD works even though there is no
namespace attribute declared in the DTD.  My exact version of IE5 is

    5.00.2614.3500, 128 bit

    update versions q231452, q231450

The actual xml document I tested is the following, based on Anand Raman's
original mailing:

DOCTYPE experience[
<!ELEMENT experience (project+)>
<!ELEMENT project

<experience xmlns:exp="http://www.angelfire.com/ar/diduknow/experience">
   <exp:title>Management Information Systems</exp:title>
   <employer>Infotech ESD</employer>
   <client>Finance Department</client>
   <exp:duration>till date</exp:duration>

When I say that "it works", I mean that IE5 displays the document text and
does not give any error messages.

> If you convert HTML to nice neat XHTML and then try to use a reference
> to the DTDs supplied by W3C you get errors. The W3C DTDs do not define
> the namespace attribute as fixed, and MS in their wisdom have said you
> must. No-one has explained why, and there is little justification for

The W3C namespace recommendation does say that if you use a DTD you have to
declare the namespace.  It also says that the namespace declaration can be
established by the default value for the (namespace) attribute.  This
implies that you may optionally declare its value in the DTD (#FIXED would
also be optional), and then you would not have to specify the namespace when
you actually write an element.  But my version of IE5 insists on needing the
namespace declaration in the element event if the DTD declares it as #FIXED!
Also, the Recommendation says that element and attribute name declared in
the DTD must be qualified.  Again, my copy of IE5 differs, since it would
not allow the qualification in the DTD.

Christopher R. Maden is right when he said that the above example for IE5
would not validate against the Recommendations, but it does work with my

So I don't bother using IE5's xml or xsl capabilities.  It's not worth it
even for use as a learning tool, you have to unlearn too much.

> it, so the only solution is to remove the DTD reference - and of course
> you no longer technically have valid XHTML!!!!!!
> Damn. I was doing so well. My therapist is going to be very
> disappointed.
> Mark

xml-dev: A list for W3C XML Developers. To post, mailto:xml-dev at ic.ac.uk
Archived as: http://www.lists.ic.ac.uk/hypermail/xml-dev/ and on CD-ROM/ISBN 981-02-3594-1
To unsubscribe, mailto:majordomo at ic.ac.uk the following message;
unsubscribe xml-dev
To subscribe to the digests, mailto:majordomo at ic.ac.uk the following message;
subscribe xml-dev-digest
List coordinator, Henry Rzepa (mailto:rzepa at ic.ac.uk)

More information about the Xml-dev mailing list