ANN: XML and Databases article

Didier PH Martin martind at
Thu Sep 9 12:43:16 BST 1999

Hi Daniel,

Daniel said:
 When faced with "groves" I still have a serious problem with both
   - Show me a definition so that I can understand the term and
     underlying concept clearly enough that an implementation
     time is spend not collecting and reading papers but implemening
     something well defined.
     Even reading I still can't
     get a clear definition of "what is a grove precisely".
     Not at the concept level, but a implementable definition say
     on top of the XML infoset (for XML documents).

Didier says:
I agree with you on that point. Actually groves are defined as abstract
entities and there is no common API to groves (each implementer ca define
its own interface).

Daniel says:
   - Show me the code. Not that there is none, I just don't know.
     Is there a program available in source code, that I can run
     on say a laptop in front of a novice (but programmer kind)
     audience (say a Gnome developper's group) allowing me in 3 mn
     to show a "grove" in action and what it does for them.

Didier says:
Easy, just use the "Linux of the markup technologies" aka OpenJade. The code
is freely available, several developers around the globe are already
improving it each day. The source code is stored on a CVS server and like I
said, is freely available. OpenJade includes the SGML grove plan but the
grove is transient (i.e. resident on the heap). This is a stand alone module
that could be reused in other code. The grove is available as a DCOM object
or a C++ object. You may make your own implementation if you want or change
the interface. For more information:

So, the first requirement is not yet fulfilled because actual documentation
about groves (I mean public one) is not targeted toward concrete
implementations and interface issues. Within the OpenJade project we are
correcting this situation by documentation a concrete freely available
component. But this is work in progress like it is for all open source
projects. The second requirement is already fulfilled, you just have to get
the code and play with it. Its free, the source is available and maintained
by an international team. So, the best way to know what's behind these 5
letters is to simply take a look at the OpenJade project. I suggest also
that you take a look at the PERL open source project because they too have
included a grove manager in the PERL package. Did you noticed that PERL
already implemented a Grove module?

Didier PH Martin
mailto:martind at

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